refund request system when you use your account credit

[Electrik]

you can request a refund by using PayPal, but there's no way if you use your account credit

[Electrik]

i will take my own situation :

Buy a map where it is not mentioned that you can't edit it anywhere when 99,9% of maps are editable.
Need to edit it, so unusable map for me. (need to add my own town, my own or other mapper arena, add some islands for raidable bases.)
Users should have the possibility to claim a refund if the situation is really complicated

[Electrik]

So i need to ask him to add custom monument from other mapper then send me the special maps ?

I just send this map in trash, can't use it for my server, no one will have the possibility to download it.
Loosing money

[Electrik]

The minimum should be to warn that you can't edit it, lots of owner edit maps for their own servers

[Electrik]

you can download map, you can't edit it because there's custom prefab not broken (so will disappear in Rust Edit)
And I already asked him, he just close my ticket and tell to buy his other monuments to edit the map, lol

Btw, the map have some weird issues

[Electrik]

and for other exemple, already bought some maps i never used (too many issue and no time to fix it), but the deal was good : buying a map, can edit it (normal). here it's not the same story

[Electrik]

Of course, I will use another map, but the initial proposal is to have a way to dispute a payment if you use the account credit, that not mean everyone can be refunded, just they have the possibility to dispute

[Death]

First off, I want to thank you for taking the time to voice your concerns. Due to the nature of digital goods, refunds are not possible without a special exception from the author. Codefling has no involvement in the refund process other than acting on behalf of the author in the event they're away, or inactive.

While we do often accept refund requests, having an automated system is both dangerous, and pretty pointless given the criteria for refunds. The only automated method I could think of that would work is allow for a refund if the file hasn't been downloaded. But I've yet to see this be the case yet.

As for your specific issue, it's always no permission unless specified by the author. Meaning, you cannot do anything but use as-is unless otherwise specified. I do agree though that this information should be visible before purchasing, so I'll see about adding that as an option on file upload to display on the file page if the author has locked a map and is not planning on sharing the password.

[Electrik]

There's no password, only few custom prefab not break (and some of his paid one are broken so appear in RE..... some mapper need to learn more from RE I think), there's no tinformation file in download file, there was no license when i bought the map. And when you can edit 99% of map you can understand that i thinking i will be able to edit this one. But anyway, I have 2 solutions : put this map in trash, or find a way to add prefab i need on it, but i have no time to find a solution, so this map will go to trash.

Mapper should warn on description, on info file that you can't edit it, and put a password on map and make a unique big prefab if they really want to secure it.

[Death]

1 minute ago, Electrik said:

There's no password, only few custom prefab not break (and some of his paid one are broken so appear in RE..... some mapper need to learn more from RE I think), there's no tinformation file in download file, there was no license when i bought the map. And when you can edit 99% of map you can understand that i thinking i will be able to edit this one. But anyway, I have 2 solutions : put this map in trash, or find a way to add prefab i need on it, but i have no time to find a solution, so this map will go to trash.

Mapper should warn on description, on info file that you can't edit it, and put a password on map and make a unique big prefab if they really want to secure it.

That's the authors choice. If they want to include other paid prefabs they should be able to charge for the prefabs individually. Again, we'll add more options on our end so this is properly displayed on the file's page.

[Electrik]

That will be nice, also if mappers let customers edit it by buying more stuff from them, they should warn before, not after.
Imagine i sell a map, and if customers want to edit IO he need to buy the IO prefab of map, if he want to edit 1 monument he will need to buy this monument, when he already paid 40$ for a map ?

At this point, i will generate a proc map in RE, add all my existing monuments, and sell this map for 40$ and ask the customers to buy all my monuments if they want to edit the map for their server, lol

[Electrik]

I imagine you understand my point of view

[Death]

2 minutes ago, Electrik said:

That will be nice, also if mappers let customers edit it by buying more stuff from them, they should warn before, not after.
Imagine i sell a map, and if customers want to edit IO he need to buy the IO prefab of map, if he want to edit 1 monument he will need to buy this monument, when he already paid 40$ for a map ?

At this point, i will generate a proc map in RE, add all my existing monuments, and sell this map for 40$ and ask the customers to buy all my monuments if they want to edit the map for their server, lol

Right, but what if I buy your map, and take out all your custom prefabs to use on my own maps. The only other way you'd be able to charge for the map and prefabs is to do a bundle price, which may not be appealing. I'd rather pay the $40 and use as-is instead of having to pay $100 to have the map and prefabs.

Being able to buy the prefabs optionally is best imo. As long as customers know that before-hand of course.

[Electrik]

But I don't put my stand alone monuments on my maps (only Pterodome and Nublar Genetics on my next one), but that's the deal, buying Necrosiis (for example) and taking monuments to add to other maps is ok, when you buy a map, you buy the land, the river, the monuments, everything.

It's not the same if a customer adds some of these monuments to a map that he will try to sell, but only for his own server, there is no problem right?

Customers who buy my next map will get Pterodome and Nublar Genetics for free because include in the map, but they will have more exclusive monument not selling out of the map.
More happy customers = more customers and a better reputation (also if you make the map and monuments clean, with less possible issues and good and fast support), too many people just want to make money, that's not good, quality is always better as quantity

[8o8 Designs]

On 7/1/2021 at 2:06 AM, Electrik said:

99,9% of maps are editable.

That's surely not true. When a person sells a map, it's for the customers personal server use, not for them to tear apart your work and/or even claim it as their own.

There's different settings if you're selling the rights to the map and not just a protected copy.

Edited July 26, 2021 by 8o8 Designs

[Electrik]

i bought like 15 maps, only 1 is not editable, so yes, it's not 99,9%, it's 93,3
edit a map when you are using some specific things (like your own prefabs you need to add to the map) is sometimes really important

 

[8o8 Designs]

I see your point. I guess it comes down to what kind of customer it is. I presumed maps were sold to Rust players for server use and since they're built from the creators own vision, it 'should' be kept as is. A map is a work of art, their work of art. I personally think the standard should be protected unless agreed otherwise between buyer and the seller.
I've had a fair few people proposition me about opening up maps on RE, but I've made it clear that it must be protected on their end (their password) and they aren't to edit the map to sell it on as their own. It can be edited for their own server use only. Not a single one replied..

It just seems to me that selling maps 'unlocked' opens us up for more potential issues than we already have regarding the protection of work. What's to stop a person buying your map, taking all the prefabs and throwing it in a proc gen map and selling it unprotected (with credit to you) and for half the price you have your map for? They'd be selling your monuments (disguised as a map), cheaper than you and no doubt selling more copies.

It's the same issue when selling prefabs/monuments since the buyer can now create a map, fail to protect it, put it on a server and it's now free to anyone who joins the server and is willing to open the map up in Rust Edit. The password protection on maps is all we have to protect our work.

[Electrik]

"It can be edited for their own server use only"
it's exactly that...
there's no magical way to protect map.

In my position (as a server owner, not as mapper), i know I will no more buy maps from mappers that not allow any edit on their maps, because i can't add my own monument town or arena to it, so the map is useless for my server.

I do maps, monuments, i'm sure some been stolen, but we can't avoid this, that not make me protect more my stuff (I allready add password and unique prefab, but customers have it if they need to edit it).
BTW any players that connect to a server have the map, and can use it, or sell it, protection don't avoid this. But not letting owner edit the map make some owner to not buy some stuff from some mappers, that weird.

[8o8 Designs]

17 hours ago, Electrik said:

BTW any players that connect to a server have the map

My point exactly. There's no way to stop people getting a free copy of the map once they've played it, but we can protect our prefabs inside the map. This is why I prefer to give my (password protected) maps for free, but charge a small fee for monuments. My only request is that they protect their work and mine by putting a password on their map. 

I think the lesson we can take from this is to contact the seller before buying and make sure both parties are clear on the do's & don'ts, then come to an agreement.

[The Friendly Chap]

As someone who buys a lot more than he makes, my 2c is that if you buy a map, it should come with the ability to edit it. From my server's point of view, I use a custom Outpost, so players can live in it. I use a rail system that takes ages to set up, but afterwards it's reboot, crash etc proof. It need certain prefabs in certain places. The places the person who made the map are highly unlikely to conform to my own. So I need to edit those. I need to put Bob in somewhere. If the map has prefabs that are for sale, and the authour requires I buy those to edit the map, it should be noted. Every map I've purchased has come with the ability to modify it to my own server's needs. Obviously, once a map is modified, it is in a state where if you then want to move to a new version of the map the author released, you have to do the mods again. I can't send the author the prefabs to put in for me, as then I would be in violation of the ToS for the paid prefab.

If you want to claim art, and totally ban edits you may as well put the map up for free. Then the guys buying it have no advantage over the mook who connected to a server running it and downloaded the map using their Rust client. Buying a map should include the right to edit it, and anyone who thinks otherwise will suffer loss of audience and customers as a result, and should remember that the average map purchase goes : "Oh, interesting/pretty" -> "Nice Monuments" -> "Players will like this" -> "Mental Wallet Check / Or Not" -> "Purchase" Expectation of them reading the fine print = intensely optimistic. If someone finds out after buying a product that due to point of view I find silly, they can't use a map, then they should be able to request a refund. 

[SKIROW]

On 12/17/2021 at 12:33 PM, The Friendly Chap said:

 If someone finds out after buying a product that due to point of view I find silly, they can't use a map, then they should be able to request a refund. 

In the case of Electrik, he didn't read the license before he bought the map. If a customer buy something without read the terms, it's his own fault and he cannot request a refund. When I buy something online, I always read the description. Everybody should do the same.

 

[The Friendly Chap]

"Buyer Beware!" <- The call of the snake oil salesman.
 

[Electrik]

On 1/3/2022 at 9:15 PM, SKIROW said:

In the case of Electrik, he didn't read the license before he bought the map. If a customer buy something without read the terms, it's his own fault and he cannot request a refund. When I buy something online, I always read the description. Everybody should do the same.

 

there wasn't any license, you changed it after I bought it. 

[Electrik]

but I see now there's an editable version

[SKIROW]

knock it off your bs Electrik! There was a license since DAY ONE! You keep lying but only you believe your stories.