How can we suck less?

[ChristopherS]

41 minutes ago, JeffG said:

seems kinda like a grey area tho so if i request a feature to be added to say a devs plugin an they say its kinda out scope of where they see the plugin but willing if willing to pay to have my own version hows that work?

or say i when i have plugin made its off site just seems kinda far reach to say we cant do deals out side of site in my opinion!

That's a commission, that's different in my opinion. I think paying for features isn't the same as a developer asking someone to pay them directly for the bog standard plugin available here.

[JeffG]

14 minutes ago, ChristopherS said:

That's a commission, that's different in my opinion. I think paying for features isn't the same as a developer asking someone to pay them directly for the bog standard plugin available here.

i understand but again whats the diff if you will send money for commission why wouldnt you send money for plugin still seems like a grey area as i buy plugins all the time from other sites or shops an get perms here for them all the time!

[Death]

5 hours ago, JeffG said:

i understand but again whats the diff if you will send money for commission why wouldnt you send money for plugin still seems like a grey area as i buy plugins all the time from other sites or shops an get perms here for them all the time!

This is completely different. A private commission vs. soliciting sales of a file that's on the platform off the platform to skirt fees, which is likely the true reason they're asking you to do it in the first place.

[JeffG]

A way to block seeing items would bee nice 50 bucks for a generic prefab id love to block having to look at it every time i log in would be nice so i can get other things to see that i might buy!

[GangstaPichu]

A Fliter for the Wishlist would be nice! Where you can sort what you see. Like by Price, maybe by Deals going on, Category, and whatever else. Been times where I was looking though what I had in there where it would've been so nice! Especially by price when I wanted to see what I had that was low costing I could get when I didn't have much money at that time to better improve my servers.

[boostypunk]

Guys, an area that should definitely be improved is technical support for users by moderators. As an owner of a small number of plugins, I have already faced the problem when moderators do not answer questions or requests for weeks. And it's very sad, although I realize that this is an inevitable situation due to the growth of our platform.

However, I have a solution to this problem, because it's exactly what I do now at my job IRL. You need to integrate an AI staff member as a support moderator. While it may not be able to replace a full-fledged moderator who can handle complex situations, it can significantly relieve staff from answering repetitive user questions. It can function solely to consult on the data provided, or it can record data when users ask and pass it directly to moderators if their input is needed.

At the moment I am actively integrating such an assistant into the business processes of many companies and I see that it will be useful for you too. There are for sure many online platforms that provide such technical solutions if you don't want to create your own personal AI specialist. It is convenient and easy and always gives results for any business.

Feel free to contact me

[Death]

@boostypunk What do you mean by moderator exactly?

[boostypunk]

10 hours ago, Death said:

@boostypunk What do you mean by moderator exactly?

I was referring to AI support for users in chatbot under the guise of a team member. A chatbot that helps users

[boostypunk]

It's amazing how quickly the smart feed search came up. Did you prepare the site reference database in advance?

[Death]

12 hours ago, boostypunk said:

It's amazing how quickly the smart feed search came up. Did you prepare the site reference database in advance?

Has been in the works for a few months. Just great timing I suppose

[boostypunk]

12 minutes ago, Death said:

Has been in the works for a few months. Just great timing I suppose

-50$

[dustyhansen]

How long do reviews take to get approved? I wrote one several days ago and it is still not showing. I think the review process needs re-visited as others have said.

[Death]

On 10/26/2024 at 10:44 AM, dustyhansen said:

How long do reviews take to get approved? I wrote one several days ago and it is still not showing. I think the review process needs re-visited as others have said.

This was my bad. I had removed the only way for our moderators to see pending reviews while I was working on a new portal. It should be approved now or, at the very least, received a message from the team.

[dustyhansen]

15 hours ago, Death said:

This was my bad. I had removed the only way for our moderators to see pending reviews while I was working on a new portal. It should be approved now or, at the very least, received a message from the team.

Negative. My review from over a week ago is still not posted or responded to. Meanwhile generic 5 star reviews from 2 hours ago are already posted and approved. Something is not right here. Is everyone subject to having their reviews approved? Why are they not approved in the order submitted? Why does the front page always show the latest reviews as 5-star reviews?

[ChristopherS]

5 hours ago, dustyhansen said:

Negative. My review from over a week ago is still not posted or responded to. Meanwhile generic 5 star reviews from 2 hours ago are already posted and approved. Something is not right here. Is everyone subject to having their reviews approved? Why are they not approved in the order submitted? Why does the front page always show the latest reviews as 5-star reviews?

Yes, every review is subjected to a review process. I have written several negative 1-3* reviews that have been published. Truthfully, Death has no reason to lie about this in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure that the way things work is that if a review is only given the greenlight today, but was written 2 days ago, it will show as today for the timestamp, not the day it was written. So those 5* reviews could have easily been from a couple days ago.

[Death]

6 hours ago, dustyhansen said:

Negative. My review from over a week ago is still not posted or responded to. Meanwhile generic 5 star reviews from 2 hours ago are already posted and approved. Something is not right here. Is everyone subject to having their reviews approved? Why are they not approved in the order submitted? Why does the front page always show the latest reviews as 5-star reviews?

Please point out these "generic" 5 star reviews. The majority of reviews we receive are 5 stars so that's why you'll almost always see 5 star reviews on the homepage. I'm not sure why your review hasn't been approved yet but @Mals can assist you with that.

[myst1c]

Insert the configuration via BBCode so that there is a small menu with the ability to scroll.

It seems to me that it will be more convenient this way.

[myst1c]

3 minutes ago, myst1c said:

Вставьте конфигурацию через BBCode, чтобы появилось небольшое меню с возможностью прокрутки.

Мне кажется, что так будет удобнее.

You can also make it so that in the description of the plugin, etc., you can edit the size of the image.

[Death]

8 hours ago, myst1c said:

You can also make it so that in the description of the plugin, etc., you can edit the size of the image.

Double click the image in the editor to change its size.

[Mals]

On 10/6/2024 at 11:07 PM, Emigo said:

Stop filtering reviews to the point that the user ends up writting what the moderator wants. (You may repeat over and over again that you dont do that but in the eyes of the costumer, thats exactly what you do) and if i choose not to enable push notifications once, i dont need to reject that option every time i enter the site. It would be great if the site remembers my choice. Thank you

I will be honest here, we do moderate reviews. If the review is vapid, we ask the customer to add at least one element about the item. Here is the template I use to reply to those:

Hi .

Your review:


Thank you for taking the time to leave your review! Unfortunately, we cannot approve reviews with no substance. If you'd like to edit your review and resubmit, consider listing at least one detail/fact on why you like/dislike it and the purpose of your review. We appreciate your understanding!

Bad Example: This plugin is great, and the author is awesome.
Good Example: Easy to use, very configurable and updating when needed, perfect plugin for economy sustain! (actual review for Rust Rewards)

Thanks!

-Mal

If the review states something is broken, I check if they put in a support ticket. If there is no support ticket, I contact the reviewer and creator to get the ball rolling on resolving the issue. In all cases where a review is not approved, the reviewer is contacted. So if your review is more than a day old (I work a 50+ hour week and this is my hobby) then there should have been correspondence on it if not approved.

There are 25 reviews that are either lacking detail and not redone, are WIP trying to resolve issues. I usually follow up on those on the weekend to try to nudge progress, or approve the review if the creator is not taking action or responding. This is different from some site that just let the review happen. The goal is to ensure reviews have value, and that in the case of issues we try to have resolution for the customer and give the creator a chance to have a positive outcome with their customer.

There are some negative reviews out there, some creators get right cranky with me for approving them. But if they have basis and are unresolved, or there are support tickets showing it is not being addressed, it will be approved. I'm here to ensure quality reviews, and when there are issues, hopefully a positive outcome for the customer and creator.

If you disagree with my moderation, you are welcome to chat with me on site, or Discord. If you strongly disagree, put in a report and I will escalate that to Codefling senior management for review. I am human and sometime make mistakes. If you have suggestions to improve this moderation process, I am happy to chat with Death about suggestions to change the process. I follow Death's direction in how he would like me to moderate.

I do agree on the push notification, its nagging is horrid.

-Mal

[Mals]

On 10/9/2024 at 10:08 PM, BippyMiester said:

If its taking the developer months to fix an issue, then you need to reach out to the admins about it. We'll try and help you as best as we can, cause that shits not ok. That goes against our Plugin Posting ToS i'm fairly sure. Developers have a responsibility to update their plugins on a timely schedule.

If there is an issue with a plugin not being maintained in a reasonable timeframe, report it, and it will be followed up. Note, Timeframe is subjective as we try to be reasonable to both the customer and the creator. Dump and run is not okay as a creator.

[Mals]

On 10/8/2024 at 3:09 AM, ChristopherS said:

A workaround for this could be limiting reviews only to those people who have the licence on their account here on Codefling (I think it's like that already).

I don't think you can review a paid file without having a license/purchasing it. @Death that is true isn't it?

[Mals]

On 10/8/2024 at 7:13 AM, Bubbafett said:

Deemed relevant by who?

Approving all reviews help prevent review bombs and I respect that, but the current process means that I don't trust reviews at all.

TL;DR I moderate most things, I am human, if you don't like how things go with a review, please report the review.

Most reviews have been moderated by me, but not all. If you think my moderation is wrong (I know I am not perfect at it), report me, I will hand it off to senior Codefling staff to review. I am not above review of my reviews and behaviour, and definitely reflect on reports.

Death wants useful reviews to aid in informed decisions, thus the review of reviews. I know it is uncommon, and a new experience to many customers.

Codefling's goals are factual reviews with some details, that talk about the product (good or bad), do not have expletives, or personal attacks. If a review meets those criteria, I approve. I am fine with you saying something suck if it meets that criteria!

I have some guidelines and rules from Death to follow. I do my best to follow that direction and be fair. My goal is a positive outcome for the customer, and reasonable treatment of creators. If I can, I mediate issues with a creation. I will also follow up with creators who are not providing reasonable support of their products. But in some cases there is no resolution other than a negative review. In some cases, I ask the customer to address the concerns raised with their review, so their review can be approved (see below for examples). I do my best to be fair to all involved. I am an unpaid volunteer, reducing a potential for conflict of interest. Death is not my employer, he is my respected friend. I do this to help the site, as I believe it transformed the space for modded servers.

My review process:

I review a bunch of factors about a review. Is the review factual. Is it about the creation and reasonable support. If it about interaction off the site, we can't police that and can't prove it is factual. Support requests make my life a lot easier, I can see the interaction, if the creator is sitting on their hands, etc. I understand one person's "factual" is not another's. That often where there are disagreements that can't be resolved, and I make a decision (right or wrong) where to stand on a review. Thus, the report function if you feel I have been unfair or unjust.

Other factors that might lead to a discussion: Is this an enhancement request (aka asking for new functionality not listed in the description [Please put a support request in for that {and it is always at creator discretion}]). Not getting a requested enhancement is not a basis for a review. Talk about what the plugin does do good/bad, but talking about what it does not do, which is not in the description, seems unfair. For example: Reasonable: "Lights-On works but does not support turrets". Less reasonable: "Lights-On does not support permissions" (when the description explicitly says why). Unreasonable: "Lights-On does not make the Bradley's headlights flash in the time to the music I am playing". I'd approve the first, try to discuss the second (as the creator), and ask the reviewer to revise in the third one, as this is a massive enhancement request out of scope for the plugin. Again, this is at moderator discretion, so I can get it wrong (chat with me or report me).

Does it say something specific ("this sucks" or "nice!" not good, "this sucks because it all barrels explode in zombie scientists and the plugin said it modifies water catchers" or "the plugin wipes the config on server restart" specific).

If it includes personal attacks rather than addressing the plugin or quality of support, it is not going to get approved. Mals is evil and should die in fire, not good, Lights On turn all my lights off and Mals ignored my support requests for two months, okay. (I'd check that is true and if so, approved).

BTW we do get AstroTurfing all with the same content for different creations, but you don't see those as the posters and I discuss making distinct reviews per product (sample: "The UI is exception and my players love this!1!" for all the plugins for a specific creator, all within 10 minutes... suss). Review bombing is treated similarly. I also see customer upset with one of a creator's items, dumping non-specific negative reviews on each one of their other items after asking for a refund on a specific plugin, also suss. Things are not reviewed in a vacuum.

Just so you know, I really want good product too, I have six pages of purchases on the site, I don't want to waste my money on crappy products. I'm not just a moderator and hobbyist developer, I am a customer and server owner too. So I try to see if from all side.

[Mals]

On 10/13/2024 at 12:39 PM, HunterZ said:

I would hope that moderators aren't prompting people other than to give them general direction to include some details about what specifically they (dis)like about something.

As a prospective customer, "wow this is great A+++++" eBay-style feedback doesn't help me... I want to hear things like "this really helps make up for running small maps" or "I'm disappointed that this doesn't support tugboats" because it's going to help me judge how good a fit it might be for use cases that the author didn't think about. Consequently, I also try to think of these kinds of details when writing my reviews.

My template reply I selected a real review that will not apply to 99% of the plugins on purpose, to avoid tipping review. If I see a review is heading in a direction, I do prompt (my players love this... I ask what do they love about it?) Honestly, I personally don't care if you love or hate a plugin (unless it is one of mine ;-)), I just need it to have some context, otherwise it really just sounds like fanboy cheerleader squad and I wonder if you are BFF IRL with the creator.

[Bubbafett]

18 minutes ago, Mals said:

TL;DR I moderate most things, I am human, if you don't like how things go with a review, please report the review.

Most reviews have been moderated by me, but not all. If you think my moderation is wrong (I know I am not perfect at it), report me, I will hand it off to senior Codefling staff to review. I am not above review of my reviews and behaviour, and definitely reflect on reports.

Death wants useful reviews to aid in informed decisions, thus the review of reviews. I know it is uncommon, and a new experience to many customers.

Codefling's goals are factual reviews with some details, that talk about the product (good or bad), do not have expletives, or personal attacks. If a review meets those criteria, I approve. I am fine with you saying something suck if it meets that criteria!

I have some guidelines and rules from Death to follow. I do my best to follow that direction and be fair. My goal is a positive outcome for the customer, and reasonable treatment of creators. If I can, I mediate issues with a creation. I will also follow up with creators who are not providing reasonable support of their products. But in some cases there is no resolution other than a negative review. In some cases, I ask the customer to address the concerns raised with their review, so their review can be approved (see below for examples). I do my best to be fair to all involved. I am an unpaid volunteer, reducing a potential for conflict of interest. Death is not my employer, he is my respected friend. I do this to help the site, as I believe it transformed the space for modded servers.

My review process:

I review a bunch of factors about a review. Is the review factual. Is it about the creation and reasonable support. If it about interaction off the site, we can't police that and can't prove it is factual. Support requests make my life a lot easier, I can see the interaction, if the creator is sitting on their hands, etc. I understand one person's "factual" is not another's. That often where there are disagreements that can't be resolved, and I make a decision (right or wrong) where to stand on a review. Thus, the report function if you feel I have been unfair or unjust.

Other factors that might lead to a discussion: Is this an enhancement request (aka asking for new functionality not listed in the description [Please put a support request in for that {and it is always at creator discretion}]). Not getting a requested enhancement is not a basis for a review. Talk about what the plugin does do good/bad, but talking about what it does not do, which is not in the description, seems unfair. For example: Reasonable: "Lights-On works but does not support turrets". Less reasonable: "Lights-On does not support permissions" (when the description explicitly says why). Unreasonable: "Lights-On does not make the Bradley's headlights flash in the time to the music I am playing". I'd approve the first, try to discuss the second (as the creator), and ask the reviewer to revise in the third one, as this is a massive enhancement request out of scope for the plugin. Again, this is at moderator discretion, so I can get it wrong (chat with me or report me).

Does it say something specific ("this sucks" or "nice!" not good, "this sucks because it all barrels explode in zombie scientists and the plugin said it modifies water catchers" or "the plugin wipes the config on server restart" specific).

If it includes personal attacks rather than addressing the plugin or quality of support, it is not going to get approved. Mals is evil and should die in fire, not good, Lights On turn all my lights off and Mals ignored my support requests for two months, okay. (I'd check that is true and if so, approved).

BTW we do get AstroTurfing all with the same content for different creations, but you don't see those as the posters and I discuss making distinct reviews per product (sample: "The UI is exception and my players love this!1!" for all the plugins for a specific creator, all within 10 minutes... suss). Review bombing is treated similarly. I also see customer upset with one of a creator's items, dumping non-specific negative reviews on each one of their other items after asking for a refund on a specific plugin, also suss. Things are not reviewed in a vacuum.

Just so you know, I really want good product too, I have six pages of purchases on the site, I don't want to waste my money on crappy products. I'm not just a moderator and hobbyist developer, I am a customer and server owner too. So I try to see if from all side.

I really appreciate the detailed response from you on this!

I also understand that it is intended to make the user experience with reviews better, however from my standpoint this can have the opposite effect. Seeing a users review, issues, suggestions and all in the review section and a response from the dev on that review increases my trust in that dev. Support request can be private, so I can use that as a true picture of user experience with the plugin either.

I understand removing attacks on devs and abusive reviews as they do not provide any value at all, but I struggle to trust the review process when I have no way of knowing, as the customer, if the reviews are being cherry picked to make a product seem better than it is.

This removed value from the review system as apposed to letting organic reviews and responses to those reviews happen directly between the customer and the creator.

Its not my site, and I understand the goal behind it. I just don't agree with the process.